founder dogs of the NI, Ute and Tamaskan

As these breeds share some of the same ancestors, I would like to know more about the founder dogs, if anyone from any of the breed clubs has any info, or pictures of any of the founder dogs I would love to see them

I have seen a picture of Call of the wild, has anyone got info or pictures of his sire and dam please

Also Buck, I have a picture of Buck but no info info or pictures of his sire and dam

Mahlek Nanook/ Mahlek Nanook of the north don't know if this is the same dog

arctic wrote:As these breeds share some of the same ancestors, I would like to know more about the founder dogs, if anyone from any of the breed clubs has any info, or pictures of any of the founder dogs I would love to see them

I have seen a picture of Call of the wild, has anyone got info or pictures of his sire and dam please

Also Buck, I have a picture of Buck but no info info or pictures of his sire and dam

Mahlek Nanook/ Mahlek Nanook of the north don't know if this is the same dog

Arctic if you go back and re-read the thread on SC forum, which you participated in, it states that Majestic and Moose were the parents of Buck and "Ballysue" says she has Buck's pedigree, would it not be better to start with that?? Or do you doubt the validity of those claims?? There is also, as you know, several posts on Call of the wild and his dam and sire!!

Are you disbelieving the word of your good friend or trying to start trouble here???

jake wrote:

arctic wrote:As these breeds share some of the same ancestors, I would like to know more about the founder dogs, if anyone from any of the breed clubs has any info, or pictures of any of the founder dogs I would love to see them

I have seen a picture of Call of the wild, has anyone got info or pictures of his sire and dam please

Also Buck, I have a picture of Buck but no info info or pictures of his sire and dam

Mahlek Nanook/ Mahlek Nanook of the north don't know if this is the same dog

Arctic if you go back and re-read the thread on SC forum, which you participated in, it states that Majestic and Moose were the parents of Buck and "Ballysue" says she has Buck's pedigree, would it not be better to start with that?? Or do you doubt the validity of those claims?? There is also, as you know, several posts on Call of the wild and his dam and sire!!

Are you disbelieving the word of your good friend or trying to start trouble here???

whats with all the !! ????

what have Ballysue's posts on another forum got to do with me asking valid questions on this forum? Why would I disbelieve what Sue has posted?

I am not trying to start an argument, just find out more information about the founder dogs of the NI, I really don't see what is so wrong with asking these questions.

Yes I do know the names of the Sire and Dam of Buck and Call of the Wild, I would like to see pictures of them, and get more information on what breeds they were. What is controversial in that?

This is a thread to ask questions, and for people in the breed clubs to answer

Heres some of what Ive gleened...

http://www.y-garn.co.uk/ this is Suzi Pillings site her boys picture pedigree...you will see Chinoni, Bleddyns litter sister,out of Digit GSD if you ask me, and Thor is a Husky, Hanuka and Tia White GSD or x , Tim to Hanuka produced Sulin Ice note the tail so therefore it is easy to assume that Tims Sair or Dam was a Malamute(hence the TAIL.. Tex Husky cross? ,


Eddies ..Fause a GSD


Eddies Husky


Eddies Husky


Eddies Husky


Eddies Shiloh


Shiloh again ...looking at her colour and coat I would guess Buch and a white GSD x


Eddies Timber...alleged Hybrid....


Kizzy Simba Lunar

Now please compare....


The Hobo Dogs the original GSD


Full KC GSD


kc white GSD x KC Malamute


KC Malamute


the aboves Dad


Real Wolf

As a breeder I can see in the pics of the Eddie dogs how these dogs have been created without any Wolf, and I can also see how similar some of the dogs and mixes can look fairly easily, I dont beleive that there was hybrids etc... and if by a slim chance there was I certainly cant say I think any of the pics I have seen are... I dont think we would have the curly tails, the blue eyes, the temperament that we have in teh Ute and Inuit if there had been a quarter of the wolf genes they like to say there was, I have debated this for years, and to tell the truth the majority I have spoken to that state there was wolf are very pleased to say this and seem to think it is great, which makes me think they only want to beleive it is so... but as we all know we wont ever know ....

I am happy after loads of research in the fact I really honestly dont think that the Utonagan (or the Inuit for that matter) was started with wolves in barns and copious amount of hybrid... what is very interesting to me is the way the founding breeds (GSD/Mal and Husky) mix together to give an outstanding resemblance to the wolf, the ears from the husky, head of the Malamute, coat of the Malamute, tail of the GSD, eyes of the Mal, my wewe GSD x Mal looks more wolflike than half the Utes I have seen and she is a FI dog cross.... after a few years of starting again hopefully BUA can prove the story tellers wrong by showing folks how it can be done from scratch without sneaking in any wolf or wolfdog




Hope this helps Artic, I have more piccies I will look them out..

Lanie excellent post, you can really see a lot of the looks we have today. I am definately of the same opinion that the wolf input will never be known. Just reading all of the versions of events and looking at the pics, I think there was none. My opinion is that over the years and the loss of Eddie it has just become a fable that grows and grows. The original name Wolf Hybrid I think is very misleading and was quite rightly changed to NI wolfalike.

Thanks for sharing

thanks Lainie

I will have a good look at the pics, and the links, the more pics the better
can't see the KC malamute, can only see half of him in the pic

I had seen the pics of the dogs at Eddies dogs before, (where they were gleaned from), yes I agree the curly tails and blue eyes and pie bald markings are not wolf like, other dogs on that thread (on the Fause post on the other forum, there is a dog that looks quite wolflike bottom pic) anyone know the name of that dog, (I can't post the pic as the the owner of the pics asked that no one copied them), but people on here know where the pics are. Does anyone know this unknown dog?

if everyone got together and posted the pics they have, we may one day have a picture pedigree of the founder dogs, like you can trace the GSD database and see all the early GSD, that would be fantastic if we could have that for NI,

Eddies dog Shiloh, that is a very similar coat to my Sapphire,

The 3 dogs Kizzy, Luna, Simba,(whatever cross breed they are) look very wolf like in that picture, IMO much more wolflike than the 3 Hobo dogs

yes I agree is is possible to create a non content wolfy dog, and no one will know for sure about the founder dogs until there is a genetic test to confirm recent wolf content, and with all the arguing and fall outs between all the offshoot breeds, who knows what has gone in the mix.

jake wrote:Lanie excellent post, you can really see a lot of the looks we have today. I am definately of the same opinion that the wolf input will never be known. Just reading all of the versions of events and looking at the pics, I think there was none. My opinion is that over the years and the loss of Eddie it has just become a fable that grows and grows. The original name Wolf Hybrid I think is very misleading and was quite rightly changed to NI wolfalike.

Thanks for sharing

Jake I agree with you, the wolf content may never be known, and Eddie is no longer to here to give us the facts. There were other breeders at the start though so we may find out more.

I think selling the crosses as 'wolf hybrids' was either misleading (if there was no wolf content) or controversial (if there was)

but I am not really happy with the name Northern Inuit either, although I know why it was chosen, I much prefer the name Utonagon, and the meaning of that name.

Lainie that link to the pedigree, that is really good

http://www.y-garn.co.uk/

that's just what I would like to be able to do with my dogs pedigree, have the pics of the dogs on, and details of each dog

this is a pic of my Sapphire, she has Buck as G G sire, I can see in Eddies dogs, dogs with the same thick coat and blue eyes and Ink marks. Sapphire has quite neat ears (for a NI) and I can see the ears too, she has a straight tail.

Beautiful dog Artic, yes you can see where she has came from looking at the piccies, I too wanted a picture pedigree for Raven hence I have pictures everywhere, most emailed to me but everyone seems to be avers to sharing It really annoys me, JK is looking out other piccies for me, and I have more on a disc of some of the older dogs, I wish too they would just stick the pics up in an open forum like here, where everyone can see their own dogs ancestory..

Thanks Lainie, I think Sapphire is beautiful too, not that I am totally biased when it comes to my girl she is definitely more of an 'Eddie' dog, and Buck does feature a lot in her pedigree

It would be fantastic if people could post the pics they have

do you have any way doing of a picture bank like this one of the GSD, where we could all put pics?

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/photographs.html

sorry off topic but

on that gsd site I just randomly clicked on one of the numbers (no idea why I picked that one) just to see what came up, and got this dog, what a fantastic looking dog, the details for her are 1920's-30's. Owned by Alfred L. Flesh, Piqua, OH. Photo taken from The Complete German Shepherd by Milo Denlinger, copyright 1947-52, pg 38.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/553431.html

Arctic what a gorgeous dog you have.

Like yourself and Lanie I think picture pedigree's are the way to go. Maybe you could do one and other members might help with the blank spaces

Great pictures and i also believe there is no real wolf content in the NI. When i Look at Ela i can see the other breeds that made her and have resulted in a dog the resembles a wolf.

Looking forward to seeing some more pics of the older NI's though

jake wrote:Arctic what a gorgeous dog you have.

Like yourself and Lanie I think picture pedigree's are the way to go. Maybe you could do one and other members might help with the blank spaces

I would love to do a picture pedigree, but wouldn't know where to start and what software it would need,

I am very interested in the first 7 picture's that you have on this thread and how they got here.? They are MY picture's from my cam-corder which i took of eddie's dogs, with her permission. It seems like these were taken without my permission from a previous forum which i posted them to.

wild_wulf1 wrote:I am very interested in the first 7 picture's that you have on this thread and how they got here.? They are MY picture's from my cam-corder which i took of eddie's dogs, with her permission. It seems like these were taken without my permission from a previous forum which i posted them to.

so you put them on a forum to see ,so whats your problem

sally wrote:

wild_wulf1 wrote:I am very interested in the first 7 picture's that you have on this thread and how they got here.? They are MY picture's from my cam-corder which i took of eddie's dogs, with her permission. It seems like these were taken without my permission from a previous forum which i posted them to.

so you put them on a forum to see ,so whats your problem

The problem is that on the thread where 'wild_wulfs' pictures were taken from, there is a post which clearly says she has asked that no one copies any of the pictures she has posted in this section of the forum.

and that thread also says

If you have already copied these pictures PLEASE DO NOT PUBLISH THEM ELSEWHERE

There was recently a thread on another NI forum, and a big outcry as someone had made a NI photo video on YouTube, and not asked permission to use photo's that she had found on the Internet. They all complained and got this girls video removed. So yes people do have a problem with this, and wild_wulf specifically asked that her photo's were not posted elsewhere.


That is one of the reasons I asked to start a picture bank, so that there would be pictures that we could all use, as I know wild_wulf had not given permission for these pictures to be used. Shame that no-one wants to share any pics on it though.

tosh , she put the photos on a public forum [a crap one at that] so she hasn,t got a leg to stand on.

sally wrote:tosh , she put the photos on a public forum [a crap one at that] so she hasn,t got a leg to stand on.

what a charming reply, so it's OK for me to take any pictures I want from here then

not that I would if the owner had asked that the pictures were not be copied

arctic wrote:

sally wrote:tosh , she put the photos on a public forum [a crap one at that] so she hasn,t got a leg to stand on.

what a charming reply, so it's OK for me to take any pictures I want from here then

not that I would if the owner had asked that the pictures were not be copied

charming???? just truthful

Exactly {I} put them on a forum
We guessed they would be stollen, and forum rules state no copying user's images

Yes i must admit very {sarcastic} reply

wild_wulf1 wrote:Yes i must admit very {sarcastic} reply

The law regarding forums:'

If info or pics are on an open public forum then they are not copyrighted, they are deemed public, if however you need to log in with a password they are.

Hope this helps.

wild_wulf1 wrote:I am very interested in the first 7 picture's that you have on this thread and how they got here.? They are MY picture's from my cam-corder which i took of eddie's dogs, with her permission. It seems like these were taken without my permission from a previous forum which i posted them to.

Well first they where emailed to me infact some over 3 years ago, where they not on Yout6ube or something then I saved them and uploaded them to photobucket I am sorry you are not happy they are here or infact the facyt most Ute breedrs are very interested to see where there own dogs came from....as admin stated as far as i am aware I have not done anything to infringe any copyright laws these pics have been publicly available for some time.

Could you explain to me why you and others from Eddies era are so averse to any owners and breeders having the pictures of their dogs ancestors????

We have every right to see where our dogs came from and also the pedigree and background of them, if it wasnt for those of us that kept going there would be no dogs would there not. I am quite sure Eddie would see no problem with the future generations being interested in what she did, if you think so much of her and her original concept then surely it should be made available??

This is the kind of thing that really pees me off!!!! They are our dogs ancestors why should the "select few" have all right to the past of our dogs, no-one gives out any pics, pedigrees, info yet the breeders still expect to sell and well Im sorry but I want to show my puppy buyers where their dogs came from.

Again the pics used have been taken from public areas therefor have no copyright status, maybe if you didnt want anyone else to see them you shouldnt have made them publicly available??

I just dont get what your problem is, why dont you want to share??? If you are serious then pm me and I will remove them but I will not understand your way of thinking?!

Firstly they could never have been on you tube or been posted to you 3yrs ago.
I only put them on a forum last year and yes it is pass word protected so thats deemed as steeling.
They were my memories of eddie's dog's and i didnt expect them to be taken
I wouldnt have had a problem if i had been approached.
But luckily they are only 7 of 100's that i have which i didnt post and never will do.
I can understand your interest but some photo's when they get in the wrong hand's then world war 3 starts.
so as you see it's IMPOSSIBLE that those were the one's emailed to you.
The counter was never started via date on my webcam so thats how i know the difference between mine and others.
Thanx