Tamaskan Debate

The site seems to be coming back online...some pages seem to still be under review....but they have added an acknowledgement page...I found it rather amusing

jingle wrote:

Did you know that Lynn (Blustag) used to run the British International Utonagan Society which was the first out of the NI/UTE etc societies to keep a health database, make their own TDR puppy purchase contracts and make hip scoring mandatory for all breeding dogs. The Tamaskan Dog Register was the first to make eye testing and DNA profiling mandatory to prevent inbreeding (something other societies still don't do)

what a crock of shite,perhaps you can give us details of the first utes registerd with this clubs hip score details including when they were scored,i think you,ll find the northern inuit society was hip scoring before this club was even formed.
I dont know this lynn but everyone can read about her dogs and there owners and all the suffering there going through.She sounds totally evil to me.

Sally my words exactly hahaha

Jenny Jingle....

Please please be very aware of what you imply in a breed you obviously no nothing about....Anzarra is in no way a wolf dog hahahah and Taz was mainly GSD.....and for your information as I already questioned these statements on Tuulis web-site, the only "proof" on Taz is that Lynn Sharkey said so hahahah

Yep we beleive that.. Taz was mainly GSD and was registered by the Northern Inuit Sociaty as a full NI, Anzarra was his grandson from the olderhill lines mixed with Redkite ....yesthe one in teh same as LynnS started with.....The people who where at the birth of Taz and those who registered him KNow fine well he was not a wolf dog...how on earth do you have proof to say otherwise and with no proof you maybe should be careful what you state...seems to me you are clutching at straws and have a big petted lip on after your tirade was locked in the BUA forum after on numerous occasions you where asked to conduct yourself in a professional manner...

I think you will find the BUIS dispanded due to a conflict of interests ie what Lynn bred into the Utes she had was it not....If you contact the breeders involved at the time Im sure they will tell you exactly why, this is why none of us are surprised at all on the new web site as most had been said already..

Lynn did not start DNA nor hip scoring infact did she not disappear with a few Utes and reappera with Tamaskan? so therefore nowt to do with Utes and health testing...what she could have done however was while she was allegedly spayignher dogs who had produced epilepsy she could maybe have gave a thought to those who had bought from her and where breeding from these lines....BEFORE more dogs where produced with problems....not sent you to give all the information in a vindictive and spiteful manner and spitting the dummy with everyone who doesnt back your behavior up!

Wether this is true or not I feel that TDR should show some responsibility to their owners and members and get this sorted...if it is liable get it down and put up a public statement if it is however true...let all the owners know what to do about it!! Stop fighting and sort out the dogs!!

May I please remind you that this forum is for healthy debate, no personal insults please. Can posters please note that unless you have categorical proof DO NOT post comments that are untrue or misleading as this can be seen as Liable. ANyone who does such shall be warned and then blocked from the forum.

Thank you appreciate your co-operation.

Please remember too that this forum is for new owners and old so try and make a good impression for your breed.

Lanie wrote:Please please be very aware of what you imply in a breed you obviously no nothing about....Anzarra is in no way a wolf dog hahahah and Taz was mainly GSD.....and for your information as I already questioned these statements on Tuulis web-site, the only "proof" on Taz is that Lynn Sharkey said so hahahah

This is exactly my point. This website states that its true even though you and I both know that it isn't. They are basing these 'truths' on something somebody said, not on fact, just like everything else on that website.

Why would Lyn say she has wolfdogs when she actually has Utonagan and then change her mind and call them foundation Tamaskan and say they have no wolf content, the foundation dogs booklet the TDR produce, written by Lynns daughter lists Tumanra at Blustag as being bred by Lyn B at Sulin kennels in the UK, no mention of wolf dogs there, looks like honest truth to me and im sure Lyn B will verify that Lynn purchased a puppy from her, so why are they insisting that these are wolfdogs?

If it is proven that they are wolfdogs then the Utonagan breeders are just as guilty of breeding wolfdogs as the Tamaskan people are, but it wont be, because it is all lies.
There is no wolf in the Utonagan and there is no wolf in the Tamaskan, if they can lie about the Utonagan having wolf why can you not believe they are lying about the Tamaskan having wolf?

jingle wrote:

Lanie wrote:Please please be very aware of what you imply in a breed you obviously no nothing about....Anzarra is in no way a wolf dog hahahah and Taz was mainly GSD.....and for your information as I already questioned these statements on Tuulis web-site, the only "proof" on Taz is that Lynn Sharkey said so hahahah

This is exactly my point. This website states that its true even though you and I both know that it isn't. They are basing these 'truths' on something somebody said, not on fact, just like everything else on that website.

Why would Lyn say she has wolfdogs when she actually has Utonagan and then change her mind and call them foundation Tamaskan and say they have no wolf content, the foundation dogs booklet the TDR produce, written by Lynns daughter lists Tumanra at Blustag as being bred by Lyn B at Sulin kennels in the UK, no mention of wolf dogs there, looks like honest truth to me and im sure Lyn B will verify that Lynn purchased a puppy from her, so why are they insisting that these are wolfdogs?

If it is proven that they are wolfdogs then the Utonagan breeders are just as guilty of breeding wolfdogs as the Tamaskan people are, but it wont be, because it is all lies.

btw I am not threatening anyone here, I am not so twisted as to start a website about wolf content in the Utonagan, I was just trying to prove a point.

so far all i,ve seen is you sticking up for this lynn sharky,you dont back up what your saying with any proof ,this has got me wondering,mabe your lynn sharkey hhhmmm????i wouldn,t blame you going under a different name,i wouldn,t want to be her.

Sometimes I question myself and say why bother with this silly debate. If me and the other few Tamaskan supportes would not write anything in support of our breed most of you would have nothing to debate about. Then I see some comments and all they do is point fingers at individuals and talk bad of others. If you could all just leave well enough alone and look for a purpose in this. What is so terribly wrong with the Tamaskan Dog breed that there are so many haters out there? I can understand this coming from a puppy purchaser who got a bad deal but that is something to take up with the breeder. Here you all are throwing blame at certain breeders or members of the TDR, most of you have had little to no dealings with them but you have to throw your 2 cents worth in and join in. I would like to think you all are better than that being owners of these wolf look alike breeds and want to help and support each other. I know some of you are supportive and have been genuine with me on some issues and I thank you for that and I hope we can maintain a friendly relationship. The haters, the rumor spreaders, and the holier than thou need to find something productive to do with their lives.
Personally I see this No Wolf Tamaksan Fable website serving no good purpose other than putting a black eye on the Tamaskan Dog and the supporters of the breed. If these self proclaimed do gooders had any common sense and decency they would of notified individual breeders and made inquiries as to what dogs they were breeding. Instead they concoct a website that creates the illusion of evidence and fact. The only fact is in the newly added acknowledgement page listing the (Not Dozens) four individual responsible for this mess. I cannot speak of the Finnish people but I can go on and on about the USA people. I will leave that to your own discretion to believe them or not. One USA person has no breeding experience what so ever and the other was involved with the Tamaskans for a year. Both left at the same time and now call their original Tamaskans, Aatu Tamaskans. Check out the Tamaskan Breeders Association as this is their answer to all that is wrong with the Tamaskan. They are going to fix everything with their new direction. Take a look at their breeder’s web sites. No where will you find any problems with their dogs, no health issues listed, no wolf in their dogs, For some reason this No Wolf Tamaskan Fable website totally evades them. I do not even think any of their dogs are mentioned in the fable site.
Am I the only one that thinks this is odd as these are the do gooders trying to save the world from evil Tamaskan wolf dogs yet they continue to breed the same dogs under a different name? Ironic, Hypocritical, self serving, vindictive, and other words come to mind in discribing this No Wolf Tamaksan Fable site..

John

Hello. I'm new here but I have a few things to say. I've been following the Tamaskan for a few months now and so far I have seen nothing to make me think there is any wolf in them. I have talked to owners and breeders who all say their dogs have wonderful temperaments. I have read through the entire No Wolf site and nothing there has made me question the Tamaskan or their breeders.

Quite frankly I believe this is nothing more than an attempt to discredit the Tamaskan and promote the Aatu Tamaskan. FYI I can't stand that the Aatu is still calling their dogs Tamaskans. If you're trying to disassociate from a breed because it allegedly has wolf content then drop the name! Stop using the Tamaskan name to promote your own dogs. I find it incredible that while the true Tamaskan supposedly has wolf the Aatu (which are currently pure Tamaskan) does not. Amazing since Mikko at Conchur is the son of two alleged wolfdogs! And If I remember right a few Alba "Aatus" are "wolfdogs" according to "No Wolf". If everything on "No Wolf" is true then Aatu breeders cannot claim to not have wolf in their dogs. Either "No Wolf" is right and the Aatu has wolf content or the Aatu doesn't have wolf content and "No Wolf" is wrong. Both can't be right.

I saw someone mention a recent attack on Blufawn. I believe I know what you are talking about. Someone calling themselves JasonTamaskan posted a complaint about their "out-of-control-cat-killing-Tamaskan-dog" that was bred by Blufawn. This is impossible as it is a well known fact Blufawn has only had ONE Tamaskan litter that are currently only 5 weeks old. Clearly this was meant to make uniformed people believe a lie about wolf content and bad breeding. The fake complaint was quickly removed but I believe the damage intended was done.

jingle wrote:I am Jenny from the BUA forum, sorry forgot to answer, I would have been jenny but it was taken.

Jenny who? Please identify yourself. You posted BUA forum about epilepsy cases and now speak of things only someone deep in the breed would know and claim to know about my fall out with Lynn and BIUS history etc.

jingle wrote:
and yet Czech wolfdogs are not wolves, most are less than F4 less than 15% wolf, so if Oskari is a 100% Czech as you say he is then his progeny such as Jackal (whose mother was pure Sib) are prob F5 or more which would make any Tamaskan produced using those foundation dogs an F6 or more. You say the Utonagan are ok because they are all past F3 and yet you create a website dedicated to blasting Tamaskan for using F6 dogs???? Does this makes sense, no.

Oskari's case is not an example of wolfdogs per se. The fact that his identity was never told is. Czech wds are not a problem in UK as I'm sure you know. As someone already said, the difference between Tamaskan and Utonagan is that one breed organisation tries to hide facts and the other to find them.

jingle wrote:
Even as you suggest a vet taking DNA samples matching microchips to the dog, this could all be falsified by either side and so cannot count as evidence and I am sure neither side would trust the other to make it work anyway, they would have to fly (or drive) to be together so both sides can verify the dogs the DNA is being taken from.

I have no problem with this if someone neutral comes along and sees everything goes as it should. I asked the lab and thinking this is not official (non-registered dogs), it is even possible to take the samples yourself. I'm sure someone from the BUA could help with this, perhaps take the samples even? And this neutral person can send the samples straight to the lab and not to me. So what is the problem? I can even pay the postage. This is a very simple way to prove who is correct and have as solid evidence as modern science can offer.

john wrote:What is so terribly wrong with the Tamaskan Dog breed that there are so many haters out there?

Who has said anything about hating the breed? I'm very surprised this keeps coming up as I think it is in the best interest of the dogs if people actually know what they own and can thus understand their unique behaviour and appreciate it. Also, if I hated Tamaskans, I would hate my own dogs and Reijo's dogs too so this claim makes no sense at all. Can you not see the point here? Telling the truth and making sure the dogs are not the ones who suffer from their owners ignorance.

Now, I would like to receive answers to my questions. Jingle, it seems you are now the speaks person of TDR so I'm waiting your reply to these:

- Please let us have Whitefang's owner's contact information. If you cant post it here, you can email me at tuuli.salmi (at) jyu.fi. I can then inform this forum when I receive them, and contacted them myself.
- Please post or email me recent photos of Whitefang.
- Please give us the contact information for Ivan's and Dixy's owner. Again, email is sufficient. I will inform here when I get them.
- Please post photos of Ivan and Dixy and their pedigrees.
- Please post photos of Polar Speed Oskari and give us his owner's contact information.
- Please post FKC pedigrees for Susi, Dingo, Jackal, Zev and Magnus (as they should be registered as pure bred siberians if in deed Oskari is P.S. Oskari)
- Please answer why Oskari and his offspring are not mentioned as pure siberians on Foundation Dog Booklet
- Please answer why you have sold Dingo & Susi puppies as Tamaskans if they are indeed nothing more than pure siberians?
- Please answer how much a Tamaskan puppy from Lynn Sharkey costs?
- Please answer why I was banned from Tamaskan forum?

Please post here before the end of this week. Thanks!

I'm one of the people who has been involved with the site. I don't own a tamaskan, neither have I tried to buy one, but I have wolfdogs. A few years ago I was emailing with Blustag about wolfdogs, because I was interested about new lineages and the wolfdogs that were on their website. The reason why I got involved was the fact that I've heard enough that "They have a good temperament, they can't be wolfdogs!" Well, there are lots of wolfdogs with good temperaments. The creators of tamaskans take the credit from wolfdogs when denying their breeds origins. And the other reason is of course that people have the right to know the true origins of their dogs.

TuuliS wrote:
Now, I would like to receive answers to my questions. Jingle, it seems you are now the speaks person of TDR so I'm waiting your reply to these:

- Please let us have Whitefang's owner's contact information. If you cant post it here, you can email me at tuuli.salmi (at) jyu.fi. I can then inform this forum when I receive them, and contacted them myself.
- Please post or email me recent photos of Whitefang.
- Please give us the contact information for Ivan's and Dixy's owner. Again, email is sufficient. I will inform here when I get them.
- Please post photos of Ivan and Dixy and their pedigrees.
- Please post photos of Polar Speed Oskari and give us his owner's contact information.
- Please post FKC pedigrees for Susi, Dingo, Jackal, Zev and Magnus (as they should be registered as pure bred siberians if in deed Oskari is P.S. Oskari)
- Please answer why Oskari and his offspring are not mentioned as pure siberians on Foundation Dog Booklet
- Please answer why you have sold Dingo & Susi puppies as Tamaskans if they are indeed nothing more than pure siberians?
- Please answer how much a Tamaskan puppy from Lynn Sharkey costs?
- Please answer why I was banned from Tamaskan forum?

Please post here before the end of this week. Thanks!

I am sorry but WOW your attitude stinks.
I am not a member of the TDR, I don't have access to these details and I cannot be Lynn because she is delivering a puppy to Germany and I cannot be Jennie because she does not have a computer at the moment and is checking her email from her mobile phone, I just know everyone because I have been around for a long time, I was once a member of the Northern Inuit Society.

Do you really think that anyone is going to hand you this information after what you have done? Do you think after the lies you have spread about Blustag and Tamaskan she is going to trust you with contact details of stud dog owners and TDR members?


I can answer these though

Please answer why you have sold Dingo & Susi puppies as Tamaskans if they are indeed nothing more than pure siberians?
For the same reason breeders sold NI x NI puppies and called them Utonagan, these are now foundation dogs, this is early days within the breed and eventually all the lines will be meshed, but you have to start somewhere.

- Please answer why I was banned from Tamaskan forum?
Because all you want to do is spread rumour, they don't need to hang around and wait for you to start, they have seen you do it on other forums. I would ban you as well if it was me, your a bad person Tuuli and you only have bad things to say.

This is the exact same John and Jenny who have posted on the Utonagan Breed Registry Forum. They went on there all guns blazing as soon as someone posted something negative about the TDR. They both pretended to be someone they are not.

It just makes you wonder about the ethics and lengths they might go to in covering up certain issues

jingle wrote:I am not a member of the TDR, I don't have access to these details and I cannot be Lynn because she is delivering a puppy to Germany and I cannot be Jennie because she does not have a computer at the moment and is checking her email from her mobile phone, I just know everyone because I have been around for a long time, I was once a member of the Northern Inuit Society.

Again I ask, what is your name?

jingle wrote:
Do you really think that anyone is going to hand you this information after what you have done? Do you think after the malicious lies you have spread about Blustag and Tamaskan she is going to trust you with contact details of stud dog owners and TDR members?

I would gladly offer any information of my breeding/breed/health/pedigrees if someone asked it. I would absolutely and certainly give every bit of information I had in the case someone disputed the facts I had presented. This is your chance to prove us wrong by giving the information we ask and letting someone take the DNA samples.

jingle wrote:
For the same reason breeders sold NI x NI puppies and called them Utonagan, these are now foundation dogs, this is early days within the breed and eventually all the lines will be meshed, but you have to start somewhere.

We are discussing Tamaskan. Please answer the question.

jingle wrote:
- Please answer why I was banned from Tamaskan forum?
Because all you want to do is spread vicious rumour and insult breeders, they don't need to hang around and wait for you to start, they have seen you do it on other forums. I would ban you as well if it was me, your a bad person Tuuli and you only have bad things to say.

Before you can prove us wrong, it is not rumour, lies or vendetta, or whatever you want to call it in order to draw eyes off your self. Forums are for discussion. If someones discusses with manners and expresses their opinions with respect (I'm not the one who calls people liars, vindictive, dangerous, that their attitude stinks, that they are out to cause trouble etc etc etc), not letting them do this is one word cencorship. I hope you can see how this looks to others?

TuuliS wrote:
Again I ask, what is your name?

it is Jenny, I have answered this before.

I can see how this looks to others. Its a well known fact that the Utonagan and Northern Inuit have never seen eye to eye with the Tamaskan.
To the Utonagan and NI people this is a perfect excuse to try to defame the Tamaskan as they have been doing for years.
To people uninvolved with the breed this website will seem immature and will be seen as John said as an abvious ploy to lure people to the new breed of dog 'the answer to everyones prayers' the Aatu Tamaskan (whos lines are miraculously problem free and have no wolf content).

I would have thought the Utonagan people would be against such a thing, yet another breed, all from the same lines as the last but with a new name, but no, you seem to be for it because you say these people are honest, I say they are not honest and have informed no one of the health issues in their dogs like the Tamaskan people have done, but for some reason you don't care, it is obvious you have made up your mind that you will support anyone who is not Lynn no matter what they are doing and no amount of common sense will change your mind.

Tuuli, you are not going to recieve any information from anyone, your not involved with the breed, you don't breed, don't even own the breed and aren't belonging to any tamaskan related society, what right have you to demand information from anyone? Do you really think by taking this attitude the TDR is just going to hand you all their contact details so you can contact people and spread more lies?

TuuliS wrote:
Please post here before the end of this week.

I mean come on...... if this is how you try to get answers to your questions no wonder people ignore you, I would not answer a request said in such a manner, you are being very rude.

jingle wrote:and again I tell you, it is Jenny.

Jenny who?

jingle wrote:
To people uninvolved with the breed this website will seem immature and will be seen as John said as an abvious ploy to lure people to the new breed of dog 'the answer to everyones prayers' the Aatu Tamaskan (whos lines are miraculously problem free and have no wolf content).

I have nothing to do with Aatu Tamaskan. Again, calling us names isnt really helping your case.

jingle wrote:
Tuuli, you are not going to recieve any information from anyone, your not involved with the breed, you don't breed, don't even own the breed and aren't belonging to any tamaskan related society, what right have you to demand information from anyone? Do you really think by taking this attitude the TDR is just going to hand you all their contact details so you can contact people and spread more lies?

We are discussing the site and whether you have proof against the shown evidence or not. I raised questions you yourself have offered as truth and as evidence. I think it is sort of obvious someone should answer questions, dont you? You can blame attitudes or what ever you want but that will not change the fact that you have to offer evidence in case you want people to believe you anymore.

jingle wrote:
I mean come on...... if this is how you try to get answers to your questions no wonder people ignore you, I would not answer a request said in such a manner, you are being very rude.

Well, I can only say that if we dont receive answers on this public forum so that everyone here discussing and reading can see them, I can only think of one reason for that. You dont have them. Which again means our findings are correct.

TuuliS wrote:
Jenny who?

I am very sorry my name is Jenny Smith, would you like my date of birth and national insurance number as well to prove I am who I say I am, yuo are a bit paranoid aren't you? You can look me up on facebook if you like, jenny smith, picture of a tamaskan.

To be perfectly honest I don't think it is for the Tamaskan dog breed to justify themselves to you, your the one with the website spreading the lies without any facts, in a court of law it would be for YOU to prove that they are true, not for the TDR to prove that they are wrong.

I am sorry I don't have the answers, no I am not sure how much Lynn charges for puppies or the name and address of whitefangs owner oh no, it must all be true because I don't have the contact details for dogs way back in pedigrees
Not many people can boast to have the names and addresses of all their dogs grandparents owners.
If you want answers why dont you ask the people who have them instead of trying to get me to do your dirty work?

If you have nothing to do with Aatu Tamaskan then why are you helping them with their website now when you have not spoken to Lynn in almost 4 years. If you were so very concerned why didn't you say something 4 years ago when Lynn started to breed these dogs? Why now just as the Aatu people are starting their new register if it wasn't because you are working with them to defame the orginal Tamaskan breed?

jingle wrote:

TuuliS wrote:
Jenny who?

If you have nothing to do with Aatu Tamaskan then why are you helping them with their website now when you have not spoken to Lynn in almost 4 years. If you were so very concerned why didn't you say something 4 years ago when Lynn started to breed these dogs?

funny this you cant give any proof on the dogs and there background,but you can state that tuulis spoke to lynn four years ago why not try telling the truth,its a lot easier than back tracking with lie after lie.
i still think your lynn

To Jingle -

Alot of the information was easy to get if you know your breed, esp as the world of the wolf look a like is a reasonably small one. If you dont know the info or dont have it then you can not say 100% that what you believe or been told is in fact true. If the dogs were huskies then they should be easy to find the pedigrees, if you defend this breeder so ardently then should should at least know how much she charges for a pup!

As for knowing the grandparents of you dogs well on both sides i have met Elas grand parents and on the other i have met her great grand parents and since pictures of even older relatives. So its not that unheard of or even difficult if you have an interest. I would suggest that you clarify all your facts are being 100% before defending them so hard on an open forum when it seems you have seen or do not know of any proof to back it up . . .

razcox wrote:
If the dogs were huskies then they should be easy to find the pedigrees.. . .

Well this has already been tried, pedigrees have been found and presented. But instead of admitting defeat they say that its the wrong dog.
That Polar Speed have more than one dog called Oskari and you all go along with it. If you can't believe the evidence when it is right at the end of your nose then yuo never will because you want to believe bad things.
The Sire in the litter was 100% husky but the dam is said to be high percentage which means Jackal and Dingo would not be registered huskies anyway as they are not pure hence they have no paperwork hence no proof from either side except from DNA profiling.
I think you all need to buy a copy of the new foundation dogs booklet, you may all have a better understanding then.

I know that tuuli stopped speaking to Lynn 4 years ago because they stopped talking a few weeks after Lynn moved to Finland to set up a business with Tuuli and I know Lynn moved in 2006 because I looked it up on the website before I wrote it.
I have known Lynn since 1999 and I went to her for what was then a Utonagan (because they made hip scoring mandatory), but I didn't buy one straight away and I was lucky enough to get one of the first Tamaskan pups and I have never been happier with the Tamaskan breeders or the people.

Lynn is in Germany, you can check the Tamaskan forum if you like, she put a notice up she would be offline.

I am sorry I have more important things to do than beat my head against a brick wall.
If you don't like the Tamaskan dogs don't buy one, dont promote them but for god sakes why defame them for petty or vengeful reasons or create websites stating things that you cannot prove.
I think we will all see who is telling the truth after legal action is taken. Let that be the end of it, we can argue here until the cows come home but only solid proof is going to matter and seeings as you don't have any and you don't believe any of mine this conversation will never end.

jenny you really make me laugh,your full of ,you either cant or wont answer the questions asked then you go spouting off about everyone hating lynn.tell the truth thats all people are asking

Edited by Admin re language please refrain from swearing

Jenny I would just like to clarify that although you post you are Jenny from the BUA forum you are infact not a Bua member or a representative of our club.

Also I find it very difficult to even contemplate backing you or your side of the story when you have been rude, took no heed of admin in BUA forum, had no thught or care for any other owners and NOW you are trying to pull the Ute and Inuit owners into what seems to be yur own fight....

Never have I said I didnt like the Tamaskan why would I that is a very stupid comment....I think they are lovely dogs and the owners up until I had the misfortune to come across you have been very freindly and nice...I feel that if you where sitting on the outside reading what has been said on your part and watching how if it doesnt suit you you feel the need to slate our breeds well says it all really about you and your intentions..

As I said before on numerous occasions if it is infact not true get it dealt with before your breeds owners get into trouble!! stop wasting time with this insistant debate....

I really couldnt give a monkeys who did what when and why...but I do take great offense at your attitude toward other owners and other breeds.

If BUA can help any Tamaskan owners re health records or any other matter we are glad to help...but with you Jenny I have seriously had enough

Susie wrote:This is the exact same John and Jenny who have posted on the Utonagan Breed Registry Forum. They went on there all guns blazing as soon as someone posted something negative about the TDR. They both pretended to be someone they are not.

It just makes you wonder about the ethics and lengths they might go to in covering up certain issues

Yes, I am the same John from the Utonagan Breed Registry Forum. Tell me Susie, What would you say or do if your child came home from school with a black eye saying some bully hit them? Well some bully created a website to defame my dogs and in particular call one of my very own a (F3) Wolfdog. Sure I can sit back and be a bullet sponge and say nothing or I can dedend myself. What would you do?
Who do you think I pretend to be? I am not hiding behind some false pretense. The question should be who are you and why did you decide to chime in?
What have I posted that you question my ethics or what I might be covering up? I am not the one responsible for this bogus web site making accusations and defaming others.

John

Jingle, I have been saying all these things since I found out Lynn was not going to tell the truth. You can check e.g. from Dogsey forum.

jingle wrote:

razcox wrote:
If the dogs were huskies then they should be easy to find the pedigrees.. . .

Well this has already been tried, pedigrees have been found and presented. But instead of admitting defeat they say that its the wrong dog.

A link to a database is not proof. All Finnish pure bred dogs and all imports are there. If they are pure bred Siberians, they should have real papers and I know what they look like giving I have 6 FKC registered dogs. Please show us the paper pedigrees for Susi, Jackal, Dingo, Zev and Magnus.

jingle wrote:
That Polar Speed have more than one dog called Oskari and you all go along with it.

First of all, csw Oskari's real name isnt Oskari, he is Oxbow Leva-Neve. Oskari is his nickname. Siberian husky P.S. Oskari's real name is P.S. Oskari. Polar Speed has been breeding huskies for quite some time so you can even find two siberians or a siberian and a Japanese Spitz having the same real name. E.g.: http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoirat.aspx?Uusi=1&Nimi=polar%20speed%20olga&Kotimaiset=0 , http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoirat.aspx?Uusi=1&Nimi=polar%20speed%20berit&Kotimaiset=0 , http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoirat.aspx?Uusi=1&Nimi=polar%20speed%20doris&Kotimaiset=0 , http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoirat.aspx?Uusi=1&R=270&Nimi=polar%20speed%20elmo&Kotimaiset=0 and so on: http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoirat.aspx?Uusi=1&Nimi=polar%20speed&Kotimaiset=0 . So you see this is not weird or exceptional in any way. It is just so obvious you are trying to use P.S. Oskari as a alibi for csw Oskari but failed to know P.S. Oskari is not owned by Reijo nor had any litters at his kennels and anyone can check that. Anyone can also contact Wild Motion kennels and confirm this information: www.wildmotion.fi .You can also contact Reijo and ask him, his contact details can be found at: http://www.polarspeed.fi/. Not to mention the several articles where csw Oskari is mentioned, e.g. http://www.hs.fi/omaelama/artikkeli/Koira+sin%C3%A4+olet+t%C3%A4hti/HS20061217SI1KU0179e . Where it says: "Eight years ago on a competition trip to Pyrenees Jääskeläinen saw the precious treasure of a fellow musher - a wolfdog mother and her two puppies. These wolfdogs are a mix of wolves and GSD's. Jääskeläinen's huskies were in tough racing condition and he was able to convince the fellow musher a trade. Wolfdog puppy Oskari came to Finland and huskyman Jääskeläinen became a wolfdogman. Now Oskari's offspring run in front of the sled."

jingle wrote:
The Sire in the litter was 100% husky but the dam is said to be high percentage which means Jackal and Dingo would not be registered huskies anyway as they are not pure hence they have no paperwork hence no proof from either side except from DNA profiling.

Jackal is Oskari x P.S. Pauliina. Pauliina in FKC database: http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoira.aspx?RekNo=FIN10861/00&R=270. If Oskari is pure bred siberian, there would be a pedigree looking like this: http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmSukutaulu.aspx?RekNoI=FIN38076/99&ReknoE=FIN10861/00, which would make Jackal a pure bred husky and he would then have FKC papers.

I wonder why you didnt go for the other registered Polar Speed Oskari, the Japanese Spitz. http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoira.aspx?RekNo=FIN52953/06&R=262 . This would have at least made Jackal a mixed breed

jingle wrote:
I think you all need to buy a copy of the foundation dogs booklet, you may all have a better understanding then.

I have it. None of the information is really helpful. (If anyone here has not got it, email me and get your copy!)

jingle wrote:
I am sorry I have more important things to do than beat my head against a brick wall.
If you don't like the Tamaskan dogs buy one, dont promote them but for god sakes don't defame them for petty reasons or create websites stating things that you cannot prove.

I have a Tamaskan and I love her to bits! Your reasoning just does not work, everyone wanting the truth has the right to have it, no matter what they think of Tamaskans, TDR, Jennie, Lynn or me.

jingle wrote:
I think we will all see who is telling the truth after legal action is taken.

Sure, I have no problem with that as I know I'm telling the truth.

Listen Jingle, if you are not Jennie P. or Lynn S., you can just ask them to post here themselves and answer the questions. No need for you to defend them. As they themselves have said, no one but them know the truth anyway.

john wrote:

Susie wrote:This is the exact same John and Jenny who have posted on the Utonagan Breed Registry Forum. They went on there all guns blazing as soon as someone posted something negative about the TDR. They both pretended to be someone they are not.

It just makes you wonder about the ethics and lengths they might go to in covering up certain issues

Yes, I am the same John from the Utonagan Breed Registry Forum. Tell me Susie, What would you say or do if your child came home from school with a black eye saying some bully hit them? Well some bully created a website to defame my dogs and in particular call one of my very own a (F3) Wolfdog. Sure I can sit back and be a bullet sponge and say nothing or I can dedend myself. What would you do?
Who do you think I pretend to be? I am not hiding behind some false pretense. The question should be who are you and why did you decide to chime in?
What have I posted that you question my ethics or what I might be covering up? I am not the one responsible for this bogus web site making accusations and defaming others.John

John when you introduced yourself (after a ripping post to Takari) mention that you owned Tamaskan dogs. NO!! Your words were "Recently I have become attached to the Wolk look a like dogs such as the NI, Ute, Tam, and CWD. All of these are difficult to find in the USA and I figure I will start joining some chat boards and learn more about the breeds and hopefully in the near future I will find a breeder to work with." You were rumbled by one of the Tamaskan owners who is a long time member of that forum. "Jenny then leapt to your defense as here!! "Jenny" allegedley only wanted to know her dogs family tree, does,nt sound like the Jenny we have here who seems to know everything. But it was the very same argument.

As for deciding to "chime in" I am a member on both the Ute registry and BUA forums you saw fit to use!!! June politely asked as did Lanie for there to be no arguing on the UTE forum, you listened to no-one. Unlike the BUA forum, you lied to get onto the registry as did Jenny, whatever it takes to discredit anyone that disagrees with TDR:twisted:

TuuliS wrote:As they themselves have said, no one but them know the truth anyway.

So why are we even arguing about it?

I am sorry if you think I am being rude Lanie, I don't mean to be. I was very badly treated by the people on the other forum through posts by admin (who deleted an innocent list of the dogs I knew had produced epilepsy in the tamaskan world and who had links to Utonagan) and by others through pm's so I am a little rattled and I never meant to drag other breeds into this, I only joined the forum innocently looking for info on hip dysplacia in my dogs lines (that went back to Utonagan) because I had lost a NI to hip issues a few years back and also because I was considering breeding (the TDR does not have access to these old hip results, I already asked them), I happened upon the argument about Tamaskan and I tried to defend my dog and my breeder as any owner would when people are spreading lies that could result in their pet being taken away and pts by authorities. I was just trying to state a point that lies are spread about every breed of 'wolf like' dog, but because someone says its true does not mean that it is.

I did not want to offend anyone with a Utonagan or insinuate that they have wolf content, they don't, it is all just rumour. I also don't mean to insinuate that NI or Ute societies don't have health systems in place, they all have them now.

I apologise to anyone who took offence by what I have said, I only wish to defend my friends.

I was not pointing a finger at all members of this forum for disliking Lynn, I am sure the majority of you have never met her, but it is the only logical reason I can come up with for why you are siding with someone who is ruining the reputation of your breed as well by stating that dogs in your pedigrees as well as ours have wolf content.

Feel free to post on the tamaskan forum if you want to find out answers, both Jennie and Lynn use it. But be prepared to wait for answers as they are both off line.
Here is the discussion thread link http://tdsgbforum.forumup.com/viewtopic.php?t=752&mforum=tdsgbforum