Re: Hip Scoring Why bother!!!

Lanie Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:29 pm

Elaine I am so proud of you and BUA as for all the disappointment and hard decisions everyone will always do the right thing. I am gutted as you are, he is absolutely stunning and one of the best boys so far he is also from the best hip scored Ute (bar one more the same 3:3) and a low bitch 7:3 and we did our best to ensure this didnt happen, sadly there are so many more bad genes to clear out of our beuatiful dogs,, the more folks like you the quicker and better chance we have of saving our breed. Very Happy

You know you have done right by your boy no matter how hard and unselfish that decision was.... you did it because you have morals and because you care about the dogs ..... hands up to you .... and a BIG well done.

May I add for those outwith, as Kaynos breeder I would not have uplifted hios endorsements but this never came into it as Elaine is singing from the same hymn book as I ....THE DOGS COME FIRST Very Happy

Lainyb Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:41 pm

Wish to apologise to admin if this post is unsuitable and in anyway brings the forum under any libel threat, as this wasnt my intention, just purely wished to air my views and opinions as a pet owner foremost and wannabe stud owner. Thank you

Susie Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:30 pm

I would just like to say firstly lainyb how sorry I am regarding your hip scores, you must have been truly upside down waiting for them and then to not get the results you had hoped for. You and your breeder have shown great responsibility in making the decision not to breed from your boy. Commendable indeed.

Loraine I just want to apologise for any aggrevation I may have caused for you and the BUA, that was not my intention.

As was said on that other forum name and shame, with all of the information I have gathered I would like to see them try to take ME to court. How would they look standing in court trying to justify breeding from these dogs with previous puppy owners, heartbroken, watching.

Admin I have pm,d you ALL of the details and links to information, I hope that puts your mind at rest.

arctic Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:42 am

Susie wrote:Well, well, well looks like the thread running elsewhere has been locked, mmmmmmm I wonder why. Even the national newspapers believe in naming and shaming which is what I AM trying to do.

So where to start, Tim and Hanuka. Hanuka was sired by Tims brother (uncle/niece). Next Tim and Inca hips 36-35 (father/daughter) produced cheyenne hip score 27-27, Yana hip score 31/35 and Lief (died young) who was put to Akasma (half brother/sister) who in turn produced a pup Shakira (no hip sockets died of a siezure pos epilepsy).
Cheyenne hips 27-27 was put to Shimber hip score 53-53 (half brother/sister) produced Bibi and Naja severe HD Totals of 100 and 106.

Are these the actions of a responsible ethical breeder. This is the same person who is breed advisor with TIDA June what were you thinking, I was honestly shocked that with this background you would even consider breeding from Lona. There is more, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Now how was that for research, I did,nt have to look far believe me. As for "knowing so much" I have had dogs long enough in my life to know that you must always research the breeders and lines. I am not some daft wee lassie. Everything here is well documented facts and anyone that thinks that this is not a problem and a disgrace is as guilty as the breeders.

I had seen the Bibi and Naja website before, so this information isn't hidden, it is there for everyone to see.

As well as breeding from dogs with high hip scores, I find inbreeding unacceptable as well.

edited to add, in hip scores where there has been a high score caused by a trauma injury I guess it could be argued as not causing HD, but this would show as an uneven score, and not be inherited by the next generation.

jake Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:12 am

Artic it would seem we are in agreement, well nearly Very Happy

The only difference is I would not be prepared to take a chance breeding from a dog with high scores, even if there was an environmental issue, given the background of that dog. Too high a risk. From what I can see this dog has a sister who has acceptable scores has been bred from already so why breed from the high scoring one?

I think the whole thing is a shambles and an utter disgrace Evil or Very Mad

razcox Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:04 am

I am truly shocked by who has done this, with my dealing with her in the past she has always seemed to want what was best for her dogs and even commented on a thread about Ela where i was talking about the tests we had done. I really am shocked that she could have done this Shocked

I am also shocked that some people seem to think its ok and just want to look at pretty pictures of the puppies nevermind the fact the breeder has let them down in even breeding them

Why get the score if you are going to breed anyway regardless of what it says?

It really is a disgrace that the threads keep getting locked as well i see the one on dogsey has gone as well. If its all so 'ok' and she hasnt done anything wrong then why are they trying so hard to bury it?

arctic Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:01 am

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arctic Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:05 am

post deleted

razcox Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:28 am

arctic wrote:
razcox wrote:I am truly shocked by who has done this, with my dealing with her in the past she has always seemed to want what was best for her dogs and even commented on a thread about Ela where i was talking about the tests we had done. I really am shocked that she could have done this I am also shocked that some people seem to think its ok and just want to look at pretty pictures of the puppies nevermind the fact the breeder has let them down in even breeding them Why get the score if you are going to breed anyway regardless of what it says?

It really is a disgrace that the threads keep getting locked as well i see the one on dogsey has gone as well. If its all so 'ok' and she hasnt done anything wrong then why are they trying so hard to bury it?

yes totally agree, and I am shocked to say the least, not been on Dogsey for a while so don't know what was posted on there, I thought the point of a forum is a place to have a discussion,

admiring pretty puppies and pretending everything is all OK doesn't help the future of the dogs at all

Well it was on another forum as well were i asked a question and was told off, it seems people (again i was surprised by who) are happy to just see the cute puppy pictures

jake Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:02 am

razcox wrote:
arctic wrote:
razcox wrote:I am truly shocked by who has done this, with my dealing with her in the past she has always seemed to want what was best for her dogs and even commented on a thread about Ela where i was talking about the tests we had done. I really am shocked that she could have done this I am also shocked that some people seem to think its ok and just want to look at pretty pictures of the puppies nevermind the fact the breeder has let them down in even breeding them Why get the score if you are going to breed anyway regardless of what it says?

It really is a disgrace that the threads keep getting locked as well i see the one on dogsey has gone as well. If its all so 'ok' and she hasnt done anything wrong then why are they trying so hard to bury it?

yes totally agree, and I am shocked to say the least, not been on Dogsey for a while so don't know what was posted on there, I thought the point of a forum is a place to have a discussion,

admiring pretty puppies and pretending everything is all OK doesn't help the future of the dogs at all

Well it was on another forum as well were i asked a question and was told off, it seems people (again i was surprised by who) are happy to just see the cute puppy pictures

I saw where you had posted no answers there then!! Evil or Very Mad

razcox Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:03 am

Nope wouldnt seem so, no shock there though Rolling Eyes

honiahaka Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:22 pm

Susie wrote:Well, well, well looks like the thread running elsewhere has been locked, mmmmmmm I wonder why. Even the national newspapers believe in naming and shaming which is what I AM trying to do.

So where to start, Tim and Hanuka. Hanuka was sired by Tims brother (uncle/niece). Next Tim and Inca hips 36-35 (father/daughter) produced cheyenne hip score 27-27, Yana hip score 31/35 and Lief (died young) who was put to Akasma (half brother/sister) who in turn produced a pup Shakira (no hip sockets died of a siezure pos epilepsy).
Cheyenne hips 27-27 was put to Shimber hip score 53-53 (half brother/sister) produced Bibi and Naja severe HD Totals of 100 and 106.

Are these the actions of a responsible ethical breeder. This is the same person who is breed advisor with TIDA June what were you thinking, I was honestly shocked that with this background you would even consider breeding from Lona. There is more, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Now how was that for research, I did,nt have to look far believe me. As for "knowing so much" I have had dogs long enough in my life to know that you must always research the breeders and lines. I am not some daft wee lassie. Everything here is well documented facts and anyone that thinks that this is not a problem and a disgrace is as guilty as the breeders.

Hi i was the owner of above hilighted dog...............it broke my heart what we went through as this was the sulin breeders pick of litter for potentail breeding she also had a full blown heart murmur !!! and this was NO WAY enviromental (sp) i just wish id taken it further as my vet wanted too to stop her doing this to other poor puppy owners, we went on her word ( no internet at that time it was a toss up between sulin or blue stag affraid

)

So in answer to the original post YES we should bother hip scoring and NO way should these dogs have been bred from IMO........ Crying or Very sad

Lanie Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:17 pm

Hi Tracey

This must break your heart every time it comes up Crying or Very sad

it is so sad and also so maddening how much has went on and not been addressed... at least now with the internet we can keep a closer eye on the goings on and try and inform new puppy owners about these things...bottom line is: with the history behind these dogs NO higher than average dog should be used its just not worth the risk and it is certainly not fair to gamble the risk for the sake of the pups and also the new owners Evil or Very Mad

jake Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:22 pm

honiahaka wrote:
Susie wrote:Well, well, well looks like the thread running elsewhere has been locked, mmmmmmm I wonder why. Even the national newspapers believe in naming and shaming which is what I AM trying to do.

So where to start, Tim and Hanuka. Hanuka was sired by Tims brother (uncle/niece). Next Tim and Inca hips 36-35 (father/daughter) produced cheyenne hip score 27-27, Yana hip score 31/35 and Lief (died young) who was put to Akasma (half brother/sister) who in turn produced a pup Shakira (no hip sockets died of a siezure pos epilepsy).
Cheyenne hips 27-27 was put to Shimber hip score 53-53 (half brother/sister) produced Bibi and Naja severe HD Totals of 100 and 106.

Are these the actions of a responsible ethical breeder. This is the same person who is breed advisor with TIDA June what were you thinking, I was honestly shocked that with this background you would even consider breeding from Lona. There is more, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Now how was that for research, I did,nt have to look far believe me. As for "knowing so much" I have had dogs long enough in my life to know that you must always research the breeders and lines. I am not some daft wee lassie. Everything here is well documented facts and anyone that thinks that this is not a problem and a disgrace is as guilty as the breeders.

Hi i was the owner of above hilighted dog...............it broke my heart what we went through as this was the sulin breeders pick of litter for potentail breeding she also had a full blown heart murmur !!! and this was NO WAY enviromental (sp) i just wish id taken it further as my vet wanted too to stop her doing this to other poor puppy owners, we went on her word ( no internet at that time it was a toss up between sulin or blue stag )

So in answer to the original post YES we should bother hip scoring and NO way should these dogs have been bred from IMO........

I am so sorry for your loss Sad

no-one should have to go through that. Maybe things will be a bit more difficult for them now we have the internet. They are an absolute disgrace

Evil or Very Mad

arctic Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:55 am

Is hip scoring now compulsory for all breeding dogs?

this question is to all the groups

Anon Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:33 pm

This was June in 2006 before she had hip scored her own bitch:

An interesting thread from Dogsey, read how Tawneywolf aka June Clark, follower of Lyn Barraclough, talks about hip scores!! Even then, 2006, she was blaming environmental issues for a Sulin Stud Dog having a score of 53-53!! Well it did make way for her own breeding from a high scoring bitch!! Is this the reason she left TUS, they would not register her pups ??

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=44857

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